This is my go-to TvP build, which is basically what Flash has been using for quite sometime. A good standard macro build for every level.
Flash used this against herO in the Sandisk Shoutcraft final game 2, 4, 5 and 6. However, if you scrutinize these games, you will notice that the build orders vary. This is because this build has a “standard route” with the option to react accordingly.
Game 5 is probably the one that is closest to the “standard route”.
10 – Supply Depot
12 – Barracks
12 – Refinery
15 – Orbital Command and Reaper
Pull Scvs out of Refinery after there is 50 gas (for the Reactor)
@400 mineral – Command Centre (@100% Orbital Command)
@100% Reaper – Reactor (Constant Marine production)
@100 mineral – Supply Depot (Build Supply Depot accordingly here after)
The above is the standard one Reaper expand into Barracks opening in TvP. Next, this build favors early Engineering Bay for upgrade.
@125 mineral – Engineering Bay and put Scvs back into Refinery
@150 mineral – Barracks (@100% – Tech Lab and Refinery)
@100 gas – +1 Infantry attack
@100% Tech Lab – Stim
@100 gas – Factory
This build does not get the third Barracks before Factory.
@100% +1 Infantry attack – +1 Infantry armor
@400 mineral – Command Centre (@100% – Orbital Command)*
The timing of the Command Centre depends on how much resources you spend on other structures to react to Protoss’ builds.
@100% Factory – Reactor and Starport. 2x Refinery
@150 mineral – Barracks (@100% – Tech Lab)
@100% Starport – Swap Starport onto the Reactor of Factory and produce Medivacs
@100% Stim – Combat Shield
Start Marauder production from the Tech Lab Barracks and get Concussive Shell (previously only Marine).
@50% (or 100 gas) – Armory
Maneuver around with the bio and Medivac as per standard TvP mid game.
@100% Armory – +2 Infantry attack and +1 Mech attack
Scouting and reacting
Scv scout at 15 supply or after the Barracks is completed. This is down to personal preference, and not build order constraint. If you send an earlier Scv scout, you have the option to do an Engineering Bay block against a quicker Nexus build. For example, one gas expand and quick Mothership Core expand.
This build starts with a standard Reaper opening, so this gives you better chance to deduce the build of Protoss. Due to the early Engineering Bay, you can put down a Missile Turret at the mineral line against Oracle. Scout the natural at 7:00~7:15 for the gas. If no gas is taken at the natural, it is likely that a Gateway bust is incoming. Build Bunkers. This build is just standard, so you should have everything at your disposal to defend against anything as long as you scouted it. In game 6, Flash even remake a Reaper to scout after he lost it.
Move out with the Marines when Stim is about to finish. The Marine will have Stim and +1 attack by the time it reaches the other side of the map. These units are meant to scout if there is a third and the unit composition of the opponent (deduce the tech path). If possible, force a Photon Overcharge and/or kill Observers.
The second timing, and the most important of all, the Medivac timing. When the first pair of Medivac is out, Terran has the complete initiative. Standard TvP knowledge since Wings of Liberty.
Third Command Centre
It is standard to get a third Command Centre before the 4th and 5th Barracks due to the current metagame. The additional units from the 4th and 5th do not make much of a difference if Protoss turtle on two bases. At best, the relatively stronger army can delay Protoss from taking the third a little bit more. by getting the third Command Centre early, it acknowledges that Terran cannot deal damage to Protoss at that point of time, and an earlier third Command Centre is the [only] way to get ahead. This is the current understanding of the match up.
The timing of the third Command Centre varies as I have mentioned earlier. If uninterrupted, it can go down as early as 7:30 (game 5). When I say uninterrupted, I mean you do not have to build reactionary structures like Missile Turrets and Bunkers. In another words, stick to the build order and let the opportunity cost of the reactionary structures goes to the timing of the third Command Centre.
Nevertheless, this build converges back to the standard TvP convergent point.
– 3 Command Centre
– 5 Barracks (add two more after the third base is running)
– 1 Starport
The early upgrade timing sets up well for Scv pull, which is something that Flash favors. Scv pull is about upgrade timing and not less of build order. In general, you will have two Engineering Bay for upgrade on three bases for a standard macro game. This build cut the second Engineering Bay to spend the resources on the +1 attack for Viking. Therefore, after the Scv pull timing for this build is +2/+1 Infantry and +1 Mech.
It is optional to add Ghost into the Scv pull. The Ghost Academy can go down when the +2 Infantry and +1 Mech attack are at around 50%. Although Flash does not seem to have much success with the Scv pull, I think I will still do it because TvP late game is even more brutal.
16 thoughts on “My go-to TvP build”
If you really want to go for scv pull this is a good build to go for it.
Lately I’m watching forGG alot for TvP. He does three builds:
-15 gas expand agression (mines or helions). Works great on a couple of maps.
-CC first (only 4v4 maps with blind turret at 07:00)
-forGG 2 rax. This is a standard reaper expand with 2 rax. But forGG takes 3 gasses early for a crazy starport timing 06:00-06:20. He delays ebay until 09:00. That allows you to drob at 09:10-09-30 which is super early.
The third build is my goto build. It has strong agressive potential and does well against 2 base colossus all ins because you keep em back. You can still get your thid nice and early. The only downside to it is that you are weak against 2 base blink.
I’m interested in the third, paste me a vod please. =)
ForGG is also doing a one base agression of a 111 on his stream recently.
Gas first > factory reactor (produce 2marines 1hellion each cycle) and rush 1medivac (push with 3hellions at front and drop 8marines forcing photon overcharge.
@next 100 gas, as the 1st medivac pops : build an armory and switch factory on reactor for 2x hellions cycles rallied to the front. Come back with more medivacs hellbats and marines. Win before 8 minutes mark.
Wow, didn’t know there’s a gas first Hellion all in build in TvP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSr0CmTV6ZQ game two on MRG. This is the CC first variation tho. Can’t find a VOD Of the 2 rax build but I could send you a replay. I subscribe to forGG on twitch. If your interested I can mail you the replay when I’m at home.
Great! Thanks in advance for the replay!
thx for the replay! this build is interesting even if it shows clear weaknesses against DT and oracle play.
What makes the starport be very quick is first of all the research of concussive shells and only afterwards stim. The timing is very interesting and I wonder what the lack of +1 attack does to the mid game and what its impact is.
@maxilicious: I am not a big fan of this build flash uses. Indeed, you sacrifice a lot of units for these faster engineering bay and factory which makes you weaker against allins while allowing the protoss to go fast double forge (Day9 showed it clearly in some of his VODs.). I prefer the version of maru, his build looks solid.
Thx for the replay! This build is interesting even though it shows clear weaknesses against DT and oracle plays, while being weak against early gateway aggression since forGG delays the first bunker…
However, I wonder what the lack of +1 attack induces later on in the game. Midgame is the best part of a TvP and without attack upgrade is it so much important?
Im not a big fan of flash’s build you are showing here maximilius: you sacrifice a 3rd rax for a faster engineering bay and a factory, which make you vulnerable to allins while enabling the protoss to go fast double forge without having any army to do anything (day9 showed it clearly in one of his VODs).
However, you should take a look at maru’s version of faster engineering bay (shown once again by day9): it seems more appropriate
The style of play is quite different. This build basically has the quickest Engineering Bay possible. The one that Maru did is 14CC and favors Engineering Bay before Factory for the mid game focus play.
No problem :). Btw if you ever look for a co writer be sure to let me know!
As of now, I do not have plan to expand my blog. But if I do, I will let you know.
I’m thinking about buying a domain instead of using xxxxx.wordpress.com
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I think that Flash has adjust this build. Now he put down directly the 3rd CC (before Ebay/2ndRax) if he doesn’t scout anything agressive from the protoss.
After that he can do a powerfull scv pull with the 1/1 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPJt75P34OA
Defend a two base all in : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD8JNMhG6sw
Or choose to mass drop (1 starport but 2ebay, armory) : https://youtu.be/Ci2yPxJY8is?t=31m40s
I won’t call the 3CC build to be an adjustment of this build. What Flash did is more of a “mixing things up”, because Terran usually either go for additional Barracks or tech after expand (reaper or cc first) in general. Since you’re getting a third CC early, it is better to go for upgrade relatively early too since you won’t be moving out any time soon.
That’s a good observation, and I thought of writing an article about it. However, there isn’t enough “meat” to it.
Meanwhile this article, is this build still your go-to ?
Nope. I go for variations of Widow Mine drop and three Barracks.